Lin Shaye

ILLUMINATE:  Well, hello, Lin. Thank you so much for being here for ILLUMINATE…and you know what? It is October, which is Halloween month. The perfect time to stream all of your movies because you are THE Scream Queen.

SHAYE: (Laughs) Oh, come on.

ILLUMINATE:  I was just watching you in INSIDIOUS. 

SHAYE:  Look how much I laugh. Is that copacetic with Scream Queen? I don’t know.

ILLUMINATE:  Okay. You’re a comedy legend and you’re a Scream Queen. How many people can say that they’ve been able to be both?

SHAYE: Thank you, Rachelle. I guess I never really thought about any of that. You know, when people say to me, when did you decide you wanted to be an actress? I never decided. I really never made a decision. I love what I do. I love pretending to be other people. I love trying to figure out who they are. And as a little kid, that’s what I used to do with my dolls and my animals, you know. So it’s something I’ve always enjoyed doing. And in terms of whether it’s horror or comedy or drama, I don’t ever think about genre personally. I really don’t. I don’t particularly want to be pigeonholed ever, for anything, because I feel that limits the way you expand yourself. That when you have an idea of what other people are thinking of you, you automatically try and meet that occasion, and I don’t want to do that. I always want to surprise people and I always want to surprise myself. So I don’t know. Am I good at horror? Am I good at comedy? I love pretending to be other people and figuring out who they are and where they fit into a story.

Which is why I’m an actor. That’s really what my job is. So I’m grateful for fans, for sure. I’m grateful to be pretty much enjoyed for whatever it is I do, hopefully. I like it if I scare people. But you know, when you think about it, any of the movies I’ve done that have been scary, I’m never the scary person. Hardly ever. I’m the scared one.

Well, welcome to my world.

ILLUMINATE:  I do love that you’ve created so many timeless characters that people recognize and especially like when I was watching INSIDIOUS the other night, I was thinking, WOW. It is amazing how you stepped into frame and you immediately light up the screen and you’re so drawn into Elise, you just fall in love with her. And there’s a reason why they made the whole franchise about you. It’s because you’re so incredible to watch.

SHAYE:  Thank you so much. I take that compliment to heart and I really thank you for that.

ILLUMINATE:  Of course. I was so in awe watching you and I was thinking, there’s so many people that love that character. And I was wondering what you think. Why do so many people resonate with Elise?

SHAYE:  I actually think it’s because she is a giver. This is just something I actually have thought about because, again, it’s a question that people have sort of skirted around or asked. She’s not a taker, but she’s very aware of everything around her, which is part of why she’s become psychic. Like there was this one article about that she was Dr. Elise, and I’m going, doctor of what? This woman is a housewife, with a dog, whose husband is dead, but she’s good at something. She’s got an ability. And the ability is, I think, because she’s aware. 

Honestly, I think we all have the capability of tuning into something different than the present. All of us. I get goose pimples when I say it. I think it’s really so. And it depends on what kind of receptors you open for yourself. It’s just that we have lots of receptors. And depending on what you want to take in. So I think, Elise, she’s got this ability to hear other people, both literally and psychically, because she’s tuned in. And when she quiets herself enough, she’s able to get the truth. There’s a truth that she’s able to receive. And I think sort of subliminally, that’s the kind of thing people would like to be able to do. And she’s kind.

ILLUMINATE:  Right?

SHAYE:  She’s a very kind person. She doesn’t try to be kind. She can certainly get angry. She’s got that ability where we almost threw a chair at somebody in one of the movies. But I think her innate sense is to be a kind human being. And so I think, you know, that because movies and fiction, we allow that in easier than reality because it’s safe. So I think it’s a safe place to enter the world that Elise is aware of and to sort of identify with her experience. I think that Elise sort of personifies some of those elements that people are afraid to experience on their own.

ILLUMINATE:  It’s so interesting that in the middle of this horror movie where there’s all these psychological elements going on, the supernatural elements, you then have this character who is very caring, calm…except for when she’s angry and you know when things are riling up. But  when she’s talking to the family, she’s extremely calm, she’s extremely present, she’s telling them the truth and she’s just a very open person.

SHAYE:  She’s empathetic. There’s an empathy to her that I think engages the viewer.

ILLUMINATE:  Exactly. And I love the contrast, even the cinematic contrast, of everything’s darker in color. And then you have Elise wearing light blue. You know, she comes in with a smile on her face. She’s really sweet. She’s wearing light blue. This is so interesting. Everything else around her is dark, dismal. There’s this heaviness, you know, some grief in there. And then you have Elise.

SHAYE:  You know, that was a choice. That was an act that I feel very good about because that was the choice I made. They asked me what I wanted to wear, and I kept thinking, sort of celestial, you know, that she’s tuned in to something else and that it should bring in the sky. And the scarf, the idea of the scarf, and I kind of always wanted to wear the same scarf, but wardrobe never had it. I had a real relationship with the original scarf and so we only were able to carry through the idea for wearing a scarf. But the blue is interesting, and wonderful that you picked up on that contrast and what that brought into the room. And, you know, it’s because you’re an actress and you understand.

ILLUMINATE:  I loved it and I love that you are the person that made that decision. That’s really cool.

SHAYE:  I’ll always bring a piece of jewelry or a scarf or something that I feel is right. I will always still bring it to set. And often even with great, wonderful wardrobe, sometimes you still have an idea that that’s very much yours. I think what you wear is extremely important. Shoes are very important because they make you stand a certain way.

Creating a film or a play is such a community project. And the more you contribute comfortably, you should never be afraid either to express your thoughts, always with diplomacy. Because everybody’s very protective of their position, etc., you know, whether it’s in film or a play, I mean that. Your approach is also important in terms of getting what you want.

James Wan, one who is a dream of a person in every way, is one of the few people I know who is as successful as he is and has never changed an iota of being this completely open, articulate, kind man who has a great vision for what he’s doing as a cinephile. I can’t say enough wonderful things about him and Leigh Whannell, too. They really did change my life. You know, I had a history for a while with comedy, as we all know, which I’m forever grateful for, to the Farrelly brothers, and they’re still my main men, whether they like it or not.

ILLUMINATE:  I completely agree. I also did theater and indie film. There is that collaboration. You all have to work as a team to get the project done. And I love when people can bring different ideas to the table and can bring in little details that can completely change how a film feels. The aesthetic, the mood. Actually, when I was on set, I just filmed an Apple TV show in Mexico and all the wardrobe except for one piece that they bought. They needed me to wear a pair of shoes and they didn’t have the right kind of shoes. I wore platform espadrilles on set and they were like….

SHAYE:  That was the shoes.

ILLUMINATE:  That looks like your character. Can you wear those? And so the scene that it was, it worked perfectly to wear those. I was really happy that I could have that and implement that in my character. They had my character wear this chain of necklaces, and it was in every single scene and it was like, “Okay, that’s your character’s trademark necklace.” She never goes anywhere without it. And even though I didn’t own it, I did start feeling like she bought her parents, gave her this necklace. She never takes it off. It’s a part of her life. And I completely agree that elements of wardrobe and hair and makeup can completely add to your character.

SHAYE:  And if it’s their idea, what you did, which was really wonderful, is if they say, we need to have you look like that or we need to have you wear those to take that element and to make it your own, which you did like with the necklace you knew they wanted you to wear that. So you create an emotional content to it too, that then adds to the fabric of your character.

You know, whether you’re a dancer or a painter or a singer that you’re given a specific and then it’s up to you to, to, to draw the full picture. And we’re very lucky people to be doing what we do. I can’t wait for the next, whatever it will be. The series that we were shooting in Canada. I have hopes for that. It’s New Regency, which is a big company. And I feel the work we did was really wonderful and I have a phenomenal character, so I’m really excited about the possibility. 

I love the process. I’m working on a couple of projects, a couple of scripts with this, one writer director, and I didn’t know I was going to be part. I didn’t know I was going to be helping with the rewrites. But again, I’m very opinionated, especially about character and about holes in story.  

ILLUMINATE:  You are brilliant. You’re a talented actress. You are a complete joy to watch even when you’re scary, you’re a complete joy to watch. And when that series comes out, you know I’m going to be promoting it to everyone I know. “Look at my friend, Lin.”

Well, something that I think that people should go check out, you just had a release on Hulu for BITE SIZE HALLOWEEN. I watched it. Your episode is called “REMOTE.”

It was amazing. I loved everything from your character’s wardrobe to the choices you made, and I was really amazed at, without giving spoilers to the audience who are going to be watching, your character at one point starts moving differently in a really physical way and in a little bit of stunt work too. I was curious, did you come up with all those moves yourself, not the choreography, like the stunts, but the physicality of that character when that set thing happened, or was that directed that way?

SHAYE:  No, that was me. It was very well delineated, too, about what had happened. And I actually said to the director, is it okay if I change the way I move? Actually, Eric Youngman, who directed and starred in that and wrote it, had a few things on his mind, you know.

So as far as character stuff like that, it was really up to me. And it’s interesting. When I looked at the (film), it’s almost like I channeled something.

We tried wigs. We tried a whole bunch of different stuff, but we don’t know if she’s a man or a woman. Is it a man who wants to be a woman? Is it a woman who wants to be a man, all of which are true?

We all, I think, have played with that idea somewhere or another. And I just thought, I want him/her to have lashes. I don’t know why, but I have to have lashes and beauty makeup. As beauty as it could be.

But it all came together. The suit I said I originally envisioned sort of a very tailored, kind of classy man suit. And then the wardrobe was just wonderful. Brought in all these sort of oversize suits, which kind of was clown-like.

And then as the whole thing sort of started coming together. Look, there was one tie I kind of wish that we had used, but all those little details. The shoes we talked about; he brought a great pair of men’s shoes that were just great. And once you sort of get into it, you kind of think that it was this oversize thing and the beauty makeup.

ILLUMINATE:  And the neck tattoo?

SHAYE:  The neck tattoo. That was a last-minute idea. I said, let’s put a big star on my neck. And I’m so happy. it paid off. 

But anyway, I think the more detail that you sort of imagine for yourself, try everything. And if it doesn’t work, don’t do it. But I learned to not censor ideas anyway. But always, always, always follow up, follow your instincts and your own ideas and always introduce them with diplomacy.

ILLUMINATE:  I think that’s one of the reasons you’ve been so successful and that you’re so magnetic to watch is that you are putting in all those details as you are truly transforming into those characters. And you make it look so you make it look so effortless. And I know it’s not because we all know behind the scenes as actors, it’s not effortless, but you make it look so easy to watch.

SHAYE:  Thank you for saying so. You know, I mean, when I think about my greatest success, it’s a long story and it’s also been in a many different articles as well, but KINGPIN was a real turning point for me in my career. I mean, in every way, because I was up against everybody saying, no, they weren’t going to see me for the role I had. The description was the angriest, ugliest woman ever let loose on the planet. I’ll never forget that (as long as I live), even if I forget everything else in my life. 

I’m a theater actress. I’ve always been a risk taker in the work. I mean, I’ll do anything. You know, there’s only a couple of things I might not do. But mostly anything. And I was up against every wall I created. I found the wardrobe at a thrift store. What you see on camera in that movie, if you’ve ever seen it, is everything I brought, everything I went shopping for. Every makeup idea I had, everything was 1,000,000% Lin Shaye and I couldn’t get an audition.

And I had already worked for the Farrellys. I had already done DUMB AND DUMBER. So they knew me and they were there. It was just like, “We love your work, but we just don’t think you’re right for this.” And I did not let go. And finally it was actually my ex-husband who said, call the producer, you know, because I knew the producer from DUMB AND DUMBER. So I did. And I got lucky. He picked up the phone and he was there and he said, “We love your work, but we just don’t think you’re right.” I said, “But I created this whole character. Please let me show you what I did.” And he said, “Okay, come on Thursday.” And I went dressed as “here she is.”

ILLUMINATE:  I love it.

SHAYE:  I love her. She’s really my favorite character.

And I drove out to Santa Monica looking just like that. I walked in. I was sitting on the floor and they went by me. The casting director walked by me back and forth. And I finally said, “Rick.” It was Rick Montgomery, who’s still there, casting director, a wonderful guy. And he said, “Oh my God, I thought you were a homeless person. I was literally going to call the police if you were still here.” And so I went in as Mrs. Dumars and I got the job and it changed my life. I mean, working with Woody Harrelson, it….elevated everything I ever didn’t feel about myself.

ILLUMINATE:  That’s amazing.

SHAYE:  And that came from me taking a chance. And I have to remind myself of that sometimes because we’re told no so much.  Be persistent if there’s something that you really really believe is right. Sometimes you have to finally let go of it.

ILLUMINATE:  Exactly. The fine line.

SHAYE:  Right. It’s a fine line. But love what you do and do what you love.

ILLUMINATE:  I love that motto actually. You are actually in development on a project with your son. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

SHAYE:  Oh, I’m so glad you brought it up, because I’m so glad you asked. Yes, my son is an extraordinary writer and his writing is not easy writing. It’s sort of poetic prose is the way I kind of cushion it. He’s probably the smartest member of my family, period. Lee is 33 and you know, that one of the best things about the pandemic is that he sent me some short stories he had written. And he also, during the pandemic, wrote a 800 page novel.

So he started sending me short stories which were sort of chapters, sort of part of the book in a way, and this was just about a month or so ago. I found myself reading them out loud. And  there’s characters and it’s sort of a science fiction fantasies. It’s called A DIFFERENT CITY. You don’t know really where this city is, if it’s, past, present or future, what has happened around the city. But, you know there’s corruption there. I started reading them out loud and I found myself doing voices. And I must say, I’ve never done a lot of voice work, but I know I have a very distinctive voice because I’ve been told it zillion times, which I really appreciate.

And I have a very expressive voice and I’m very good at character. So I thought, Oh my God, you know, I should narrate these. So what we’ve done is he created a deck, which is beautiful, and we recorded the first story called Monster Story, which is about three homeless guys in the sewer. And he’s written six different chapters and it’s all different characters from the city.

So very slowly, it’s a series, like you were listening to an old, old fashioned radio show, which I grew up with. I grew up with “Dimension X” and “Suspense” and all these radio shows that were really scary.

I am all the characters. The people we’ve had listen to it are really excited about it. So we’re trying to sell a series podcast and we’re on our way. I think, gratefully, the little bit of celebrity might I have, sort of brings those fans in and they’re incredible stories. I mean, they’re just really interesting and engaging.

We actually lucked out that my agent has a new podcast agent and he’s very enthusiastic about it. And so, you know, it might take some time to get it cooking. If worse comes to worse in terms of everything, we can still put it on ourselves. We could produce it ourselves. So somewhere, it’s going to show up. And the best part of all is, I’m really getting to know my own son, which I love.

ILLUMINATE:  And I love that you two are collaborating on something together and you are taking both of your gifts and you’re combining both of your strengths. You’re telling the story. I love the idea of giving different pieces of this world, different pieces of the city, and people get to learn more about it. They get to feel immersed in it.

SHAYE:  Exactly. You get to put the pieces together to give the listener a participation.

ILLUMINATE:  I love those kind of things.

SHAYE:  It really is exciting. We built a little sound studio in my closet upstairs, which is perfect. Great acoustics. He got a very expensive microphone. He was directing me actually, he’s great. He’s patient, is really smart. He’s not judgmental, just a really neutral director in terms of what he would like to see. And I thought it was a great quality as a director, period. And we got along just great and I did what he asked me and was able to feel open to contribute my thoughts as well. So it’s a very wonderful new opportunity of mother and son relationship, too.

ILLUMINATE:  I can’t wait to see it. Well, can’t wait to hear it.

SHAYE:  I can send it to you.

ILLUMINATE:  I would love that. 

Another project I was wanting to talk about because I remember you promoting it about a year ago, was TED BUNDY: AMERICAN BOOGEYMAN. Something I was curious about with it is you are playing Ted Bundy’s mom. What kind of resources did you have to get into that character? Did you get to talk to anybody from the family? Did you get to listen to any audio recordings, any video? How did you put her together? And do you have resources to rely on or was that purely the magic of Lin Shaye?

SHAYE:  It was a little bit of both, but I did feel when you’re playing a real person, there is certainly a feeling of responsibility. In terms of Mrs. Bundy, I did read quite a bit about the family. It was mostly online stuff. I didn’t go to the library or anything like that other than just what I found online and looked at some videotapes of her. She had been interviewed several times. And we tried to use that in terms of the cadence of her voice, the sort of demeanor she had, which she was just very motherly. 

She loved her son and her story. And, the way Daniel Farrands, who wrote it and directed it, you learn a lot about them just through that one scene with her and Ted and the police actually.  I thought it was very well written in terms of that it wasn’t sensationalistic or anything.

I just kind of thought about who this woman was. She’s very religious. She loves her music. I had a few things that we did, but it wasn’t in the film. There was a moment when I’m talking to the police and I’m just sort of talking about everything very quietly. And I just stood up and I said, “Excuse me,” and I walked out of the room and you hear me vomiting in the toilet. You don’t see anything and you hear the toilet flush and the cops are just kind of sitting there. And then I open the door and I come back and I kind of smooth out my robe, and I come back and I just sit right down and go right back into the conversation. I was sorry he didn’t use it because I thought that for me personally, just creatively, I thought that said a ton about this woman,and all that passion that you ingest and yet you come back because she had been molested. It was one of those childhoods that helped create the woman she became. Singing “Do Lord, oh, do Lord, oh, do remember me.” You know, we’re singing her little melodies and it all adds up to a pretty eerie character.

ILLUMINATE:  Right. I always find it so interesting talking to other actors about the difference between when we’re having to build a character from scratch, you get to have a lot of creativity. When you’re playing a real person, you really do have that responsibility to give respect to that person, portraying them right. If their family members are going to see it.

I had an audition for one, I’m not going to say what it is, but it was based on a true crime case. I didn’t end up getting it, but I did have to recreate a scene from and there was police footage of this scene. So I knew what it was, so I had to recreate that.

And it was a very emotional scene, very, very emotional. And I rewatched it a lot of times. And I was having to think, what was this person thinking at that moment? You know, what was it? What were those moments that they were feeling at that moment when this was occurring? I had to figure out how was I going to justify that this girl was staying in this bad situation. It’s a lot of work and you really want to do that person right and give them that respect. It’s tricky.

SHAYE:  It is tricky. I probably could have done a lot more research than I did. But I felt I got from what I looked at, what I wanted, what I needed to create that tableau and that portrait of the person. I felt like I I was able to retrieve the elements that were going to be useful to me. You really need to be able to refine what it is. You need to get what you want for the character.

ILLUMINATE:  The necessary details of it.

SHAYE:  Yeah. And otherwise, it becomes just clutter and, you know, sort of wheels spinning. Ultimately, you think you’re like, Boy, I’ve done it. I’ve had hours and hours and video that I watched for this. Extract those moments, those elements. And I think that’s the right words. You have to be able to learn to extract what you need.

ILLUMINATE:  Do you have any other projects you’d like to share with us? Any fun behind the scenes things? Anything you’d like to share? Because this is your spotlight?

SHAYE:  I’m looking forward to ELLEN, too, which is the working title of the (Canadian) series. The podcast was wonderful to discuss. I’ll keep you posted about that.

ILLUMINATE:  Next time I talk to you, you’ll have a whole slew of new things. Any last words for our audience?

SHAYE:  Just enjoy these days. Enjoy every day. It’s hard to do, because always we have real life which sets in and problems to solve. And I think especially because this is a birthday month for me as well, to really recognize how important time is and to use it wisely and to try not to aggravate yourself about stuff you didn’t do because that just takes away from the present and what you will do. Find those moments where you elevate yourself and you open your mind and you open your heart and soul to people and to yourself.

ILLUMINATE:  I love those words of wisdom. Where can people find you on social media?

SHAYE:  I have a Facebook page. But you can always and I mean, you can always message me and stuff. And I try and respond to things as best I can. I’m on Twitter. I don’t use Twitter very much. Instagram I use quite a bit.

So I have all my Lynn Shaye, Miss Linda Shay or whatever on Instagram. Yes. I’m happy to hear from all of you or anybody that’s got a question. I really try to give an answer if I have it.

ILLUMINATE:  And that’s another thing that I really admire about you is how connected you are to your fans. Even if it’s online, you still connect with everyone. I love every comment that you leave me.

SHAYE:  And you’re just wonderful. You are good at whatever you decide you want to do. And that’s a very rare thing. I mean, most people have a niche, but you really can do it also. So to talk to us, great questions and I’m happy you invited me on your show and I’m happy to talk to all of you guys.

ILLUMINATE:  Thank you so much for being here. It really means so much.

ILLUMINATE & SHAYE:  HALLOWEEN!

ILLUMINATE:  Happy Halloween!

SHAYE:  I even have a pumpkin in there.

ILLUMINATE:  Oh, you do? I need to get one.

SHAYE:  I just got a little one. Don’t you want to see it real quick?

ILLUMINATE:  Yes, I do.

SHAYE:  It’s actually a very cute little pumpkin. Trader Joe’s has these little baby pumpkins. I’m very color oriented, so my kitchen and everything I always have. I have an eggplant in there. But this was actually perfect. It’s also a great one to carve.

ILLUMINATE:  I have these little fake ones, but they’re still cute.

SHAYE:  All those little guys are. But seriously, I mean, this you can carve too. So I might do a little face in there or something.

ILLUMINATE:  I’ve been looking at a lot of cute little Halloween snack designs. There’s cookies and salads and different things.

SHAYE:  And I go crazy. Merchandising on Halloween is insane.

ILLUMINATE:  All the holidays they go crazy. Another thing that the pandemic brought in a good way isI didn’t have enough time to cook or even think about recipes. And now I’m like looking on Facebook and like, all that recipe looks good. I send it to myself, like, I’m going to make that.

SHAYE:  Well, okay, Happy Halloween everybody and thanks again, Rachelle.

ILLUMINATE:  Happy Halloween! Love you. And I’m so grateful that you were here today.

SHAYE:  Thank you so much. I’ll talk to you soon.

ILLUMINATE:  Talk to you soon. Bye.

SHAYE:  Bye bye.

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